Pierre Debbas ’05 is a name partner in Romer Debbas, LLP, a firm he co-founded 13 years ago. After graduating from Hofstra Law, he worked for a mid-sized law firm in Manhattan, where he remained for four years. He started his own firm just weeks before turning 30. One year later he partnered with Michael Romer to form Romer Debbas, LLP. The firm originally started as a boutique law firm but has since evolved and expanded. It currently boasts over 25 lawyers and 40 employees, including fellow alumni Carmen Pagan ’00 and Catherine Azevedo ’12.
As co-manager of the firm, Debbas spends a lot of time managing the business, working on client origination, and managing client relationships. “I really enjoy the entrepreneurial aspect of running a law practice,” he says. “I wanted to have my own business; I wanted to run and grow a business. Now I have transitioned to spending more time on the business side than on legal tasks. I spend a lot of my time teaching classes to the real estate community, including continuing education for the brokerage community and others in the real estate industry.” He also appears in the media and on television regularly.
Pagan started her career at a boutique firm, where she worked for 11 years. “I learned about real estate and multifamily agency lending at my first job,” she says. “Then I worked at an AM Law 100 firm for over 10 years. Those years enhanced my career because I took on more leadership roles. When the opportunity came to join Romer Debbas and lead a department, it was exactly what I was looking for.”
After graduating from Hofstra Law, Azevedo started as a law clerk at a real estate law firm in Garden City doing residential foreclosures. “That snowballed into a career in real estate,” she says. After leaving the Garden City firm, she went to a law firm doing commercial real estate and then worked for a lender before joining Romer Debbas.
“I knew Romer Debbas from my work with a lender, in the agency lending space,” she says, “and I was connected to the firm on LinkedIn because when I worked for the lender, the firm was one of its outside counsels. I discovered that there was an opportunity at Romer Debbas when I learned that the firm had plans in place to revamp and reignite its Agency Lending and Affordable Housing practice. At that time, I thought it was a natural step in my career to transition back to practicing law as an attorney.”
Building a Diverse Firm
“We have always looked for diversity, even before it became popular.” Debbas says. “I like to give people opportunities. While we look for the best candidate for the job, we also look for diversity. Currently, the majority of the firm is women. We have a very nice concentration of people from all different backgrounds. It is built that way by design. This benefits the firm because it offers a diversity of opinions, approaches, and perspectives from different people from all walks of life. I’m always looking to improve, seeking constructive feedback and new ideas and one of the ways I achieve that is by making sure I consult with people from different backgrounds.”
“We have a very nice concentration of people from all different backgrounds. It is built that way by design. This benefits the firm because it offers a diversity of opinions, approaches, and perspectives from different people from all walks of life.”
“In my experience, diverse lawyers seem to learn better from someone that looks like them or is from the same background or a related culture, rather than someone from a completely different background or culture,” says Pagan. “This is because when connecting with other diverse people, they often feel more comfortable in asking questions and sharing life experiences and ultimately enjoying a sense of belonging.”
Debbas met Pagan at a Freddie Mac conference in Tennessee in 2018 and they stayed in touch afterward. “When an opportunity arose at the firm, I aggressively recruited her,” he says. “Her department was to be female led in an ethnically diverse practice area. It was also nice that she was a fellow Hofstra Law alum.” They had something else in common, too. “She immigrated to the United States in the early ’90s, and my parents immigrated here in the early ’70s,” Debbas says.
When the firm sought to hire its first senior associate for Pagan’s department, they approached Azevedo. Like Debbas, Azevedo is a first generation American; both of her parents came to the United States from the Philippines in the ’80s. “It’s nice to have that kind of network and resources; it offers a sense of community, and really great camaraderie” she says about the firm.
Now Pagan leads a team of four lawyers and two paralegals. The team represents financial institutions and borrowers in the closing of real estate loans originated by private lenders, banks and other institutions such as JPMorgan Chase, Greystone, Arbor, CBRE and other seller/servicers under the Fannie Mae DUS and Freddie Mac Capital markets programs. These loans are then sold in the secondary market to a government sponsored enterprise (GSE) like Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. Thereafter, the GSEs sell the loans to different investors. After the loans are sold, the loan servicing functions remain with the lender who originated the loans.
“My work is mostly supporting Carmen while challenging myself to learn as much about the nuances and important legal topics in agency lending and affordable housing as I can,” Azevedo says. “I am primarily tasked with reviewing legal diligence and closing loans, and I communicate with banks and financial institutions, agencies, other governmental agencies participating on a loan, the borrowers’ attorneys, and title companies insuring the loans. We analyze and assess legal risks to ensure that all transactions are compliant with both lender and GSEs’ requirements.”
“This is a unique and sophisticated kind of commercial real estate,” Azevedo says. “There is a positive social impact behind the work we do as we work with lenders to finance the creation of housing for low-income and mid-income families. I am grateful to be part of a movement that contributes to accessible, affordable housing for families that otherwise will not have access to an affordable place to live.”
Empowering The Next Generation Through Mentoring and Training
In addition to its commitment to diversity, the firm is committed to providing opportunities for its lawyers and staff through training and development. “The agency lending and affordable housing practice area of real estate is very sophisticated, complex and very specialized, unlike residential or commercial real estate,” Pagan says. She believes training is crucial to the team’s success and has made it her mission to consistently train and mentor her team members, so they have the tools they need to properly advocate and advise its clients and resolve issues as they arise.
“When I was a junior associate, the firm I worked at didn’t have a training program. There was a tendency to resolve issues on an ad hoc basis. I had to learn at my own pace and if lawyers weren’t at a certain level, they would eventually get discouraged and leave the firm or they would be let go. I realized that if lawyers are not trained, nurtured, sponsored and provide them with a platform to ask questions or give them feedback on their assignments, they go into their shells and instead of expressing their frustration, they leave. You want to avoid that turnover because it isn’t good for the firm as the firm loses money, time, and effort.”
Azevedo says, “I saw a lack of mentorship early in my career. I was offered positions at law firms but received very little guidance on basic processes or concepts in the field or practice area the firm is in. At Romer Debbas, my experience has been completely opposite as Carmen has broken it down for all of us on her team through weekly training sessions.”
“I have the teaching bug, and mentoring is very satisfying for me because I am passing on my knowledge to young attorneys,” Pagan says. “It is a lot of work, but it is an investment in someone’s career, like I have invested in Catherine’s career. When they are trained, they are able to go on and be successful. It’s an intentional process. Catherine will be a partner in a couple of years. That’s my legacy. I want to expose her to everything. In a space like Romer Debbas, where there is so much diversity, I am glad I get the opportunity to mentor young attorneys who look like me. I appreciate that I can offer them a space where they feel like they belong, as that isn’t always the case in the legal field and in my personal career.”
“I am fortunate to have a mentor like Carmen who literally rolls her sleeves up to assist, mentor, lead and guide,” Azevedo says. “She genuinely has a passion for helping all her team members to be the best possible legal professionals they can be. She is a great teacher. Carmen is hands-on and she doesn’t shy away from mentorship. We all get busy, but mentorship is so important and I’m glad that I found it here at Romer Debbas with Carmen.”
To pay it forward, Azevedo has assisted in training paralegals at the firm and has even worked with a partner from another department on the nuances of what her team does. “A partner in residential real estate is assisting our team when it gets busy. I am shadowing him on deals, ensuring that the process is streamlined. I’m happy to teach paralegals, to expand their knowledge on reading titles and understanding more advanced legal concepts. I have introduced a variety of work to the paralegal assigned to me. It challenges her and she is excited to learn.”
Leading the Way Through Networking
Mentorship at the firm goes beyond just substantive legal issues. “Not only is Carmen great at mentoring her team, but she is also teaching us how to network, which is invaluable,” Azevedo says.
“I used to go to networking events by myself,” says Pagan. “Now I bring someone junior with me. I introduce them to people I know in the industry and tell them not to miss opportunities, to ask questions at the event, buy the book, or tell the speaker it was a great lecture. Always try to stay connected and get the most out of the activity. You are there to represent the firm and you are there for a purpose.”
“We try to foster a growth mindset and environment. In business, there is no time to take things for granted or be complacent, especially in our industry.”
“We highly encourage but don’t require networking at the firm,” Debbas says. “Some people are introverts, and we know everyone has their own strengths. We encourage networking if it is an endeavor they want to pursue. We try to foster a growth mindset and environment. In business, there is no time to take things for granted or be complacent, especially in our industry.”
“I want to expose Catherine to everything real estate related,” Pagan says. “When we go to conferences together, I tell her that by the end of the conference I want her to go around the room and give me a certain number of business cards. From there, we will pick three to five cards and will send a follow up to create her own network.”
“She has told us not to be intimidated and to take things in stride. Even if you are nervous to participate, you can simply sit in a room, observe and listen intently to the lectures and presentations or take the opportunity to introduce yourself, but don’t convince yourself not to show up,” Azevedo says.
The firm recently established a women’s group, Romer Debbas Women in Real Estate Group (W.I.R.E.). Pagan is a founding member and the driving force, with Azevedo helping to lead the group as well. “It has been such a great experience because it establishes a sense of unity among women in the law firm, regardless of position. We have involved ourselves with mentorship, charity events, speaker series and are working to get more events on the calendar,” says Pagan. “I’m excited to see the group trajectory and impact.” Azevedo says.
On International Women’s Day, the firm brought in a speaker from a renowned bank to speak about her career experience as a minority lawyer in a corporate legal department. “Catherine took the lead going to lunch with the speaker and introducing her at the event,” Pagan says. “Catherine is showing signs of taking a leadership role in the firm,” Debbas says.
“The first thing I tell any young attorney is to look at it as a career, not just a job,” says Debbas. “You are investing in yourself. It is a very intense profession, but you are investing in yourself. You are creating a skill set that you can use later. You have to be known as an expert to back up what you’re selling. Networking is important because you need to know people to be successful, but you also need to master the skillset to back yourself up. “How do you get clients? You need to know people; you need to know who to call. For any lawyer, the first thing is mastery of the craft, but next is who you know.”
Gratitude for Hofstra Law
All three are grateful for the experiences in law school. “I am very grateful for the education I got at Hofstra Law,” Pagan says. “I was involved in several student activities. I competed on the trial team, served as a judge in mock trials competition and was a coach for the junior trial team in a second round of completions in Florida. I created a lot of relationships at my alma mater and have stayed connected through LinkedIn and alumni activities. I remain active in the Hofstra Law community by participating in the mentorship program.”
“As a result of my experiences, I want to give back which is why I continue to participate in Hofstra Law events, continue to mentor and be connected to the school.”
“Being exposed and having all of the opportunities I had at Hofstra Law such as interning for the New York District Attorney’s Office and interning for the MTA Labor Relations Department, provided me with exposure and opportunities to develop practical strategies which were key to getting me to where I am right now in my career, even though I ended up in real estate,” Pagan says. “I am proud of my accomplishments. I am one of twelve children. I grew up in Puerto Rico and didn’t speak English when I came to New York. I understand the hardships of becoming a lawyer as a person of color because I experienced them firsthand. As a result of my experiences, I want to give back which is why I continue to participate in Hofstra Law events, continue to mentor and be connected to the school.”
When Azevedo went to law school, she didn’t have a specific career path in mind. “I kept an open mind in law school and let my experiences, professors, and courses take me wherever they took me. I didn’t narrow anything down until later in my career,” she says. In law school, she interned and worked in different places and areas of law, including personal injury, residential real estate, and at SONY Music doing intellectual property and copyright work. She worked at a domestic violence organization as a court advocate helping victims in Suffolk County by filing orders of protection and providing legal resources. She also participated in a juvenile justice clinic, where she worked with a professor on issues with residency in education and getting children proper individual education plans. “I was exposed to different areas, and I am grateful for that.”
“I’m proud of Hofstra Law and what they do,” says Azevedo. “They provide a strong foundation of support to their alumni.”
“I’m proud of Hofstra Law and what they do,” says Azevedo. “They provide a strong foundation of support to their alumni, connecting them with mentors and different opportunities for employment and providing exceptional alumni programs. I have been impressed with the outreach and alumni relations, and I would be interested in participating in the mentorship program. It’s nice to have that Hofstra Law connection with colleagues at my firm as well.”
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